S3Ep36|| Hitting Rock Middle with Sallie Holder
In this episode, I’m joined by Sallie Holder, a business coach who discovered her passion to help other female entrepreneurs once she decided to live a sober lifestyle. As we listen to her personal journey leading up to and becoming a non-drinker, Sallie shares how she found her sense of self in sobriety after years of following other people’s roadmaps.
We also talk about the unexpected shift from numbing out to processing and accepting all emotions that come up after you quit drinking. Sallie shares tips and tools on how to get through your first few days of sobriety and how to maintain a sober lifestyle in the years to come.
Sallie Holder is the founder and CEO of The BRIMM, a podcast host, author, speaker, and expert business coach. Prior to founding The BRIMM she had a decade long legal career and then went on to operate as the COO of six fortune 500 companies across six different industries (she's seen it all). All of that knowledge is what enabled her to follow her passion, which is helping more female entrepreneurs create the 7 figure businesses that they desire. When she's not helping female founders you can find Sallie at home with her two children and two sweet pups: Chewie and Sugar.
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EP 36 - Sallie Holder
[00:00:00] Sallie: I had been drinking since I was 14, you know. I never had an adult life where I wasn't drinking. So, you know, it was like rediscovering my sense of self and who I was and you know, what I really liked to do and what I only was doing because they had alcohol there.
[00:00:19] Cait: Welcome to the Clearheaded podcast, your guide to sober care.
[00:00:23] Cait: I'm your host, Cait, and I'm so glad that you're here. Maybe you're on your way to work or you're ready to wind down for the night, whatever the case may be - I'm really happy to be here with you. All of these episodes drop in on people's moments of clarity surrounding their sobriety. Before we get started on this conversation, I want to ground each other with a little bit of breathwork.
[00:00:47] Cait: Let's start by taking a big, deep breath in... and out.
[00:00:56] Cait: Okay. Let's get Clearheaded.
[00:01:00] Cait: What was the moment where you decided that alcohol was no longer serving you? You could take us back to those moments leading up to it, or a big aha moment. What did that look like for you?
[00:01:13] Sallie: Yeah, sure. First, I want to say thank you for having me here.
[00:01:19] Sallie: I love what you do. I love, you know, the message that you spread and I'm just really excited to be here.
[00:01:28] Cait: Oh, I'm excited.
[00:01:28] Sallie: Yeah. So I will, gosh, I will never forget. You know, I always had kind of that nagging feeling like it wasn't serving me, but certainly there was an event. It was at the conclusion of the summer in 2016 and leading up to it over the course of the entire summer, I had kind of dabbled with removing alcohol from the equation and just had never finally taken the leap.
[00:02:00] Sallie: And then I went on a business trip and typically I am all business, very focused and was a very heavy weekend drinker. You know, the whole adage of work hard, play hard I took very seriously. But on this trip it kind of began to bleed into my work. So I found myself leading a company call. It was at 9:00 PM because of coordinating on the west coast time.
[00:02:33] Sallie: And I had been drinking. I had gone out to dinner and suddenly I found myself at a bar in the bathroom, leading a company call and thinking to myself, this is probably not a good idea. I then woke up the next morning, pretty embarrassed, but you know, not enough to deter me from drinking again the next night.
[00:02:58] Sallie: So it began to have quite the shampoo effect the second night and I woke up the next morning, just completely incapacitated. I was so hungover. I was laying on the ground. And instead of doing the work, which typically led to about a $10,000 day or an event that would've resulted in about $10,000 in transactions, I laid on the ground and did nothing.
[00:03:28] Sallie: And I was goaded by my twin sister who was looking at me saying, get up, you need to do something. And I'm like, oh, I'll just do it tomorrow. Tomorrow I will have my stuff together. And then the third night in a row, I got blackout drunk and I was supposed to that next morning go and pick up my son from camp. And that was definitely the most shameful day of my life.
[00:04:00] Sallie: One, I will never forget. I woke up the next morning, still drunk and needed to get in the car and go pick him up. And I was totally humiliated. He was the last kid left there and, you know, I just got in the car and drove him five hours back home and remember feeling that feeling of just, I don't want to live like this.
[00:04:25] Sallie: And once I got back, I really had a, you know, nothing short of, kind of, a spiritual experience dropped him off and then felt kind of this tap on my shoulder of like, are you done? Is that enough, right? Or right, do you need more evidence that this is really hindering, right? Your family life and all of the goals that you want to achieve.
[00:04:52] Sallie: And yeah, so that ended up to be the last time I had a drink. And after that, you know, I decided to remove alcohol from the equation altogether. And definitely been an interesting journey since.
[00:05:12] Cait: Wow. Well, first of all, I love the shampoo effect. Like, I don't know why I've never heard that, but I think it's pretty... I think you're like, wow, you haven't heard a lot of things, have you?
[00:05:26] Cait: Because I'm sure it's really common, but - let me tell you, I think the shampoo effect and people's journey to become a non-drinker to identify as sober. However, people feel comfortable pretty much go hand-in-hand because there's this level of redundancy that you kind of have to reach in order to really start evaluating your life.
[00:05:47] Cait: Your book is called, Hitting Rock Middle, so is your podcast. And a theme and why we connect and connected so much is because I do believe that you don't have to hit rock bottom in order to really start reevaluating those choices. And it's also imperative to say, I think that everybody's rock middle, rock bottom, rock top looks super different.
[00:06:09] Cait: And your story somebody could hear and say, oh, that was just me last weekend. That's nothing. I do that all the time. I have that experience really, really often. And that's okay. And some people could never imagine hitting that level in a workplace or with their children. And that's also okay. But the fact that you experienced it and then adjusted... I just love. Because so many people can do that. And you have the power to take that tap on the shoulder and turn it into growth.
[00:06:44] Cait: So... I also, in your book, read that, you know, and this kind of goes into navigating this conversation further, but like you make a choice, a big choice. To some people it's bigger than to other people, but it is, I'm not going to drink anymore. And then what do you do with that?
[00:07:02] Cait: I know you went, in your book, you described, you're going to your friend and you kind of have a breakdown and you tell her you're about to write a speech and you say, okay, I have a drinking problem and her response is not what you really thought it would be, kind of, in a good way. Can you explain that to us?
[00:07:21] Sallie: Yeah, I approach her and this was the day after I had returned from the camp pick-up and, you know, coincidentally but not, she walks into my office and we're set to create this speech together, and prepare for upcoming speaking engagement. And, you know, I immediately see her and I know that she chooses not to drink. And luckily I'd known that for a while and kind of admired what her lifestyle looked like and thought about that from afar. And so, you know, she had kind of served as this...
[00:08:05] Sallie: like interesting, you know, beacon if you will, of like, hmm, you… she seems to be extraordinarily happy. And you know, she's thriving. I wonder what that would be like when I don't have this residual shame from the weekend rolling over into the week and kind of hindering me until I feel better Wednesday and then start all over on Thursday.
[00:08:28] Sallie: And so she walks in first thing Monday morning and I immediately start bawling crying, and she's like, oh my gosh, what's going on? What's wrong? And I said, you know, I have some news that I just... I think I might have a drinking problem. Like, I don't know, but you know, it tends to be that when I start drinking, I can't stop. Or I never kind of know how much I'm going to end up drinking or just don't have control over it in the way that I would like.
[00:08:56] Sallie: And I want to know that I can go out and have two drinks, but that never seems to be the case for me. And she was like, oh my gosh, I thought it was something way worse. Yes, of course. Like, that's easy. We can deal with that. I am far more stressed out about this speech.
[00:09:13] Sallie: And I just luckily, like, immediately, like, I'm sure all of your listeners have experienced this where you sort of like cry through the tears and, you know, I needed her to, you know, not only validate my feelings, but tell me...
[00:09:30] Sallie: you know, this isn't as disastrous of a conclusion that I've come to, as I thought it was in my mind. And, you know, I appreciate to this day, just how much she sloughed it off because she made me realize like, this doesn't have to be this monumental, like detrimental thing. It could be actually, you know, just a small speed bump right along the road of...
[00:09:57] Sallie: you know, life. Rather than this, what I perceived at the time to be this huge mountain I had run into and it was going to knock me down and it was going to take forever to conquer it. And it was just going to be the most horrific thing…
[00:10:10] Cait: Yeah.
[00:10:11] Sallie: …that ever happened to me, not true. And in that instance, I sort of had a little bit of an opening, very slight, a light at the end of the tunnel, right,
[00:10:17] Sallie: an opening of like, okay, this might not be that bad.
[00:10:26] Cait: Yes. I think that's so important to like, just repeat again and again and again, that there is like a light. Like there really is. And you can do it, and it is also super valid to feel like you can't for a long time. I mean, I like in my story, I had tried to make the choice to stop drinking.
[00:10:44] Cait: And I like kept going back. I kept shampoo affecting being sober because I just, I missed the lather. And until you find out why you don't need to wash your hair again, you're going to keep shampooing. And that kind of goes with everything. If you go on a diet, if you try out a new workout routine, if you're trying not to see a toxic ex.
[00:11:06] Cait: I really just… can you tell? Now, I'm going to use the shampoo effect, like all the time, because I love it.
[00:11:12] Sallie: It's so appropriate, right? Yeah. Once you put it in there...
[00:11:15] Cait: It is, it is! Anyway. Just put it in there lather, rinse, repeat. What was your, like, journey? And what did your next steps look like with committing to that choice?
[00:11:28] Cait: Did you pour the alcohol out in your house? Did you tell your friends? And what were some of the, like, rose and thorns of those choices? What were some of the trial or harder choices to make? And what were some of the better choices and blossoming decisions that came from that?
[00:11:48] Sallie: Ah, what a great question. I love that rose and thorns.
[00:11:53] Sallie: Yeah, because we act as though it is one or the other. And it is always and both, right? There are always going to be some roses and some thorns. And I would say I made the conscious choice to keep this to myself and very close to the chest, the vest, whatever it is. And I didn't share it with my husband at the time. I didn't share it with him.
[00:12:22] Sallie: I didn't share it with my kids. I actually didn't go home and throw out the alcohol because I didn't want to alert anyone. You know, I wasn't sure whether or not I was going to stick with it. And so, you know, now looking back on it, it probably was a little bit of giving myself like that escape hatch of like, if I don't tell anyone, then it doesn't have to be a hundred percent…
[00:12:44] Sallie: …true. And I don't have to stick with it. So I wanted to sort of just try it and see. And so I chose to go with my friend to an AA meeting, you know, that was the program that she used to get sober. And my older brother actually had the same experience. And so it was really nice being able to have these two people that I had in my life that
[00:13:13] Sallie: both, like I said, demonstrated life without alcohol that they loved. And it just so happened that they both used AA. I think that there are a million ways to, you know, engage in the process of, you know, experimenting with removing it. That's just the one that so happened to work for me and what I chose. And yeah, I mean, the thorn is always going to be, you know, change.
[00:13:41] Sallie: I mean, change biologically provokes a significant amount of emotions. Now I had all of a sudden, all of the feelings I had kind of tried to numb out with alcohol because it really was my escape mechanism. I was using it to escape stress I was experiencing. Little did I know at the time it was causing more stress. And I, but I thought, you know, it was my stress reliever and I thought that it was, you know, helping me to...
[00:14:14] Sallie: you know, like I said, experience the, you know, the opposite lifestyle that I deserved if I worked this hard during the week. And so all of a sudden, I experienced a lot of those emotions quickly. And I like to tell people about that, because again, I think we need to normalize the fact that some things are going to come up for you that, you know, maybe you didn't know were there.
[00:14:41] Sallie: And at the time I didn't. You know, I didn't expect to suddenly feel pretty tearful. But you know, now I don't know that I would… right, with the benefit of hindsight, I think that I had to go through that, right? I had to feel those feelings at some point.
[00:15:02] Cait: Yeah.
[00:15:02] Sallie: In order to get where I am today. And so, you know, more today, I would look at them… that experience as a rose, but certainly going through it at the time, I was like, whoa, this is so thorny.
[00:15:12] Sallie: I am not used to this. I am not used to feeling all of my feelings. I am used to just sitting down on the couch and having a drink and enough of them until I go to bed that it's, you know, all kind of numbed out and I don't have to face it. So...
[00:15:27] Cait: ... yeah.
[00:15:28] Sallie: But I mean, a beautiful rose was, you know... I started, gosh, I started getting up in the morning. And seeing the sunrise and, you know, having this... you know, appreciation for waking up without a hangover. Holy cow!
[00:15:44] Sallie: It had been so long since I had felt well, as you say clearheaded, right? And I was like...
[00:15:51] Cait: ...yeah.
[00:15:52] Sallie: This is absolutely mind-blowingly awesome. It made me feel so energetic and excited each day that despite feeling some of those emotions at night, when I had the time to sit quietly, and feel them - it was well worth it, right?
[00:16:10] Sallie: Just because I was, I felt like I was like skipping through the day because I wasn't carrying with it all the shame from the night before.
[00:16:18] Cait: Yeah.
[00:16:18] Sallie: And I wasn't having to wake up hungover, which drained my energy as well. So, you know, definitely roses, there's definitely thorns, but in the long run, the roses well outweigh the thorns. For sure.
[00:16:33] Cait: It's a garden. It's a full garden. Not drinking. And especially like that first year is look, you feel it all. You feel the uncomfortable, you feel the elatement, you feel it all. And I mean, another guest I had on - Gill, who is like the founder of Sober Powered and she has a podcast and she's really into like the science of how you feel and why you feel it, and taking alcohol out of the equation.
[00:17:05] Cait: And her and I were just talking about how so many times when I first attempted to quit drinking, I didn't know that I wasn't getting sober to stay numb. If I wanted to stay numb, and if I wanted to not feel I should just keep drinking. But you're getting sober and you're to be present and that means feeling it, and that means showing up.
[00:17:32] Cait: And that means being able to have the thorn go into your leg. And then also realize there, maybe you're bleeding a little bit and then tend to that wound that that thorn cause rather than just totally being aloof to the fact that you've got eight thorns in your legs. And now you're pulling along a whole rose bush and you're taking out the people next to you.
[00:17:51] Cait: And it's just like complete chaos because you're drunk, you know? I mean, we've been there. I've been there.
[00:17:59] Sallie: So true.
[00:17:59] Cait: We've been there. I think a lot of people have.
[00:18:01] Sallie: Yeah. And I'm like, don't look at the gaping wounds on my leg. Like let's all just pretend like they're not there. Keep on going on.
[00:18:08] Cait: It's all fine. Yeah. I'm totally out of bandaids.
[00:18:12] Cait: And then there's blood everywhere. I'm staining everything, but let's take a shot.
[00:18:16] Sallie: Yeah, exactly.
[00:18:16] Cait: Like how unproductive is that? And now looking back, I mean, we've had hindsight in this conversation so often, and it's true.
[00:18:22] Cait: I mean, like hindsight really does... I think, especially when you're like new and not drinking or being sober, you just gotta look forward to the hindsight that you're going to gain through it and get through it. You know? Just get through it. And do what you need to do to get through it.
[00:18:39] Sallie: Yeah, speaking of, I mean, there were times when I went to bed at 6:00 PM, 7:00 PM, because either I was so exhausted from feeling the emotions I felt all during the day or I was so used to filling that time with alcohol that I didn't know what else to do. I was so uncomfortable. I was like, okay, I'm just, I'm going to solve this by just getting to sleep.
[00:19:02] Sallie: But it... yeah, you just get through it. And once you do, just like anything else - working out, losing weight, any of it, right? It just continuously gets easier.
[00:19:15] Cait: Yeah.
[00:19:16] Sallie: In my experience.
[00:19:17] Cait: Did you find, has your way of filling that time or if you ever get triggered, how did that evolve? How did you go from going to sleep to like picking an activity or watching a movie?
[00:19:30] Cait: What did that evolve to over time?
[00:19:35] Sallie: Yeah, it was so funny. You know, I remember even talking to my sponsor and being like, I am so busy. I don't know if I can go to a meeting or go to whatever it was that she wanted me to. Like, even a movie with some other sober friends or something. And she was like, could you just dedicate a quarter of the time to this that you dedicated to drinking?
[00:19:58] Sallie: And I was like, Ooh, ouch.
[00:20:00] Cait: Ooh...
[00:20:01] Sallie: ... yeah. I was like, okay…
[00:20:03] Cait: Called out.
[00:20:03] Sallie: …you're right.
[00:20:04] Cait: Yep.
[00:20:04] Sallie: And I did. I made tons of time for drinking. So when I started to think about, okay, what am I going to do? Yeah. All of a sudden I found all of these things that I love to do that I'd never even explored. Because they, that time was either filled with drinking or just never even had right the wherewithal to pursue them.
[00:20:27] Sallie: So I started... so classic, right? I started yoga. Loved it. It helped to keep me really present. I felt like every... but I also started to read a lot more. You know, that was a huge part of myself that I was always a lover of learning and yet I'd gotten away from that because I had...
[00:20:50] Sallie: you know, you don't really want to pick up a book when you're cross-eyed and hungover. And then I mean, just everything. I remember, like cleaning out my house, I was cleaning out the drawers. It was like, I was especially the first year, you know, I was like, oh my gosh, I'm nesting. I...
[00:21:11] Cait: yeah.
[00:21:12] Sallie: You know, trying every hobby under the sun. I was like, let's go play tennis again.
[00:21:15] Sallie: Do I like this? Do I not? I don't know. You know? It was like finding an entirely new version of myself. And that part was really fun because I had been drinking since I was 14. You know? I had never had an adult life where I wasn't drinking. So, you know, it was like rediscovering my sense of self and who I was and, you know, what I really like to do.
[00:21:38] Sallie: And what I only was doing because they had alcohol there. And I mean, if we're all honest with ourselves, lots of what I did was only centered around, you know, whether the activity also simultaneously involved alcohol. So all of a sudden now I was like, oh, well, what is it that I really want to do?
[00:22:00] Cait: Right.
[00:22:01] Sallie: So, yeah. It's a whole new world.
[00:22:02] Cait: There's a lot of learning that comes. And I love that you like mentioned, you're getting to know yourself again. It is like a new - it's a new meet and greet to like who you are, who you're going to be and who you're not yet, because there's a lot of, like, loading time. I felt like so much of my, like, first year.
[00:22:21] Cait: I felt like I had that rainbow wheel. Just kind of always on me. You know, when you see the rainbow wheel on your computer and you're like, oh my gosh, it's all just, what? Are you over processing? Like, just get me to this page or just get me to that page. I felt like I was in that rainbow wheel zone, but...
[00:22:40] Cait: there's also, like, a big part of you that does make up who you are, which is a business woman and an entrepreneur. And so many women, I think, have two kind of sides to them when they have, like, the business side and then you have, like, the mom's side. How did you, like, get reintroduced to yourself in business?
[00:22:59] Cait: Since drinking had kind of overlapped into that world, in the professional world. Who did you meet on the side of not drinking while doing business?
[00:23:10] Sallie: Yeah. Gosh, such a good question. I… you know, I think much, like you were saying, you do get to, you know, see a side of yourself that you probably either have been ignoring or wanting to ignore.
[00:23:28] Sallie: You know, I had been in a career of coaching women on sales. And I was finding myself not as fulfilled by it because it just wasn't challenged. I didn't feel like there was additional room for growth. And, you know, I just knew that this wasn't my landing place. But I also knew I wasn't really in a position to take on a new challenge and start a new business entirely of my own while I was drinking like this.
[00:24:02] Sallie: So, I was constantly feeling this, like, push and pull of, I know that there's more out there for me to achieve and that I want to, but this drinking thing has got to go. So once I started to let go of it and made the choice, then I actually sought out a business coach. I let her know, you know, this is the journey that I'm on and here is where I've been stuck, right?
[00:24:34] Sallie: This is where I've been for a while. And you know, how can you help me get to a new place? And so over the course of really the… I would say the first, kind of, six to probably even eight months, we worked on delving deep in finding my purpose again, right. Creating a personal vision of... now what would be possible for me, right? It allowed me to go back and really reconnect with some of my childhood and my memories of what I always wanted to become. Before I always say the world told me who I should be. We did a lot of that work of, you know, defining what my idea of success looks like. I felt like I had been on someone else's roadmap for a really long time, and I didn't know how to get off at that.
[00:25:24] Sallie: And so she gave me… really, a guide or became my guide of how to get onto my path. And so we did a lot of work. Like I said, on those income goals and the lifestyle that I ultimately wanted to lead and the realization that the best way for me to create a life of fulfillment was to create a business of my own.
[00:25:52] Sallie: But I couldn't have come to that conclusion without working with someone else who was able to ask me the really challenging questions. And let's be honest, who I could really open up to and say, hey this is not where I want to be. Because I did feel a sense of shame about not appreciating the success that I had, where I was.
[00:26:16] Sallie: Yeah. And especially the fact that I had maintained it or was still allowed to be there given all the bright, shameful, ridiculous things that I had done, like leading a company meeting drunk. So I thought for a really long time, I couldn't leave them. I couldn't create anything different. All of the things that prevent us from creating any change.
[00:26:37] Sallie: And she helped me really figure out, okay, who is it that I wanted to become? Who is it that I really want to be at this end? I love that Mary Oliver quote of, Who is it that you want to become at the end of this wild and crazy life? And, you know, I was like, this is not who I want to be. I want to be, you know, someone making an impact and helping women in a bigger way.
[00:27:03] Sallie: And that's really how the creation of my company ultimately came about is doing that deeper work and realizing, you know, I had been kind of hiding myself behind alcohol for a long time and that my desire to make a bigger impact. And so yeah, it was about eight months into my journey that I ended up deciding to become a business coach.
[00:27:28] Sallie: There were obviously lots of other things that happened simultaneously with a, somebody coming along and seeking me out and asking for coaching and stuff like that. But I think that all of those things begin to kind of manifest themselves when you start to be open to the idea that you could create a new path.
[00:27:51] Cait: Yeah, you got to show up for it. You got to show up for the event that is life. Like, if you can buy tickets and you can say all the things and you can buy the books or you can write the intention, but it really is about like showing up and being present. And it sounds like you could really only be present to the level that you needed to be once you weren't drinking anymore.
[00:28:10] Sallie: Exactly.
[00:28:12] Cait: If you could take like well, there's so many questions that I have. And this, well, maybe we'll have to come back in a couple of months and I'll have you back on because just from the business side, this is so interesting. But like what is one of those really tough questions that she asked you that helped you get more aligned with who you really are?
[00:28:29] Sallie: Yeah. So I think that one certainly was about my childhood and you know, going back and reconnecting to what it was... right, when we are our most authentic selves, right. When we are not concerned about what anyone else thinks of us and, you know, she asked me back then, well, one was, would that version of yourself, right?
[00:28:59] Sallie: The childlike version that doesn't care, right? The empowered childlike version that doesn't care what other people think. Would she be satisfied in the current job that you're in? And I was like, well, that's a hell no. Like, I can say that right away. No, she wouldn't. Right. Because she was so fierce. And immediately when I reconnected with that emotion that I felt that felt familiar, that I hadn't felt in a really long time because I had dimmed my light.
[00:29:35] Sallie: Right? And that's really one of the major effects that alcohol had on me was, you know, a complete dimming of my light. But as a child, I was fierce and I thought I could do anything in the world and I wouldn't settle for anything less. And so it was reconnecting with that emotion and then remembering that I still am that version of myself, right.
[00:29:57] Sallie: We have all different kinds of parts of ourselves. It just been a - had been a minute since I had allowed myself to feel that way. And if I were really remembering that the authentic version of me, right, was fierce and was enthusiastic and passionate and excited about what the world offers then, then what would I do?
[00:30:22] Sallie: Right. Because I believed that I had stopped dreaming, right? I had cut myself off from any type of dreams. And so I think that, that bigger question about who was I and what did I believe as a child and how can I infuse that into today and remembering who I am right now? Like we never completely lose that version of ourselves.
[00:30:45] Sallie: We just disconnect from it. And when I was able to reconnect with that version and infuse it into the business person, right. The business version I am now, I remembered like, no, what I wanted was so much bigger and I am absolutely capable of still creating that. Just because I put a pause on the creation of that for a little while,
[00:31:08] Sallie: doesn't mean that it isn't completely achievable today. And so remembering that feeling was, was dramatically helpful, made a huge impact, even reconnecting with it right this second feels wildly helpful.
[00:31:21] Cait: I feel it too. Yeah.
[00:31:23] Sallie: Yeah. And it's, you know, all of us remember that childlike version. And then the acceptance we somehow lull ourselves into, you know, having is oftentimes just because we have forgotten just how capable we are.
[00:31:45] Sallie: And just how darn amazing life can really be when we challenge ourselves.
[00:31:52] Cait: Yeah.
[00:31:53] Sallie: And when we go outside our comfort zone and we fear so much of that discomfort that we seek and are willing to have acceptance where we are. And so yeah, that I began to infuse every day with that level of ferociousness and tenacity and you know, sometimes I would, kind of, like giggle at myself of feeling childlike again, but it was great. And...
[00:32:19] Cait: ... yeah.
[00:32:20] Sallie: You know, I created a new, personal vision for myself. And I'm a big believer in that we have to define our own destinations in life, business, and create that destination with a lot of specificity around what your lifestyle and even your income, because if the money didn't - I mean, wasn't there. Then many of the lifestyle goals wouldn't be achievable, whether we want to admit that or not. But with specificity, you have to have both of those. And I needed to create that personal vision of what those things were for myself and begin to pursue those.
[00:32:59] Sallie: And I had never really done that at all. I had taken someone else's version of success. I had checked every box. I was doing all the things that everybody else told me would create success. And I had ended up in a destination I hated. But that's going to happen every single time when we don't start with self, right?
[00:33:20] Sallie: When we don't start with our own sense of self, we are just going to follow someone else's roadmap. And that's never going to take us through our own sense of personal fulfillment. And I know that with every single fiber of my being now is that that is always the foundation of every business goal you have, every life goal that you have must begin with the development of your long-term destination.
[00:33:47] Sallie: And that only comes with a greater understanding of your sense of self and what is true for you.
[00:33:54] Cait: Yeah.
[00:33:55] Sallie: Because it's going to be different for every single person. Because what we're all called to do is different. And that's, what's so beautiful about life is that we're all called to do something different. And your dreams might be massive and that's wonderful.
[00:34:09] Sallie: Or they might be subtle and that's okay too. Either one of them both have a validity.
[00:34:16] Cait: Mm-hmm.
[00:34:16] Sallie: And yeah, I could go on and on about, you know the...
[00:34:20] Cait: ... I love this.
[00:34:21] Sallie: Like holding that close to… close to the chest day in, day out. And using that as a filter through which I put every decision I make now. Like, is this the furtherance of who I want to become?
[00:34:33] Sallie: Or is it merely some box I'm attempting to check along the way to someone else's definition of success?
[00:34:39] Cait: Yes, what a good filter. I wish everything could have that filter. And I guess it can, if you choose to have it.
[00:34:46] Sallie: Yeah.
[00:34:47] Cait: I mean, I think being sober and seeing like, I'm curious if your perspective and, and I know we're, we're running out of time here, but, I think that having had alcohol be such a fundamental part of my life for so long, and then seeing it go away. The absence of alcohol, having such a fundamental part of my life now being sober is so empowering to me where alcohol and drinking used to be empowering to me. Seeing how much that can change,
[00:35:16] Cait: I feel like everything else is limitless. If my mind can change from that, if I can grow from that, if I can take a shattered plate and make it a mosaic, I can make this trial a complete success. And I can make this failure a complete learning experience. And then I feel like seeing that has fueled so much of what can allow me to take your advice and hopefully other people to sit and take your advice and really remove the limit that we have from ourselves, reconnect with our inner child and go after it because you can do it, if you do it.
[00:35:54] Cait: Wrapping up with this incredibly insightful breath of fresh air conversation - my final question to you goes back to being sober. And for anybody out there who's listening who's a woman, who's a mother, who's a business woman, who's a person who is ready to, or just newly stopped drinking - what would your tip or tool be for people to put in their sober toolkit?
[00:36:24] Sallie: Ask for help. You're here, I'm here. There are so many of us. And you know, we are taught again, the world teaches us that asking for help is a bad thing, right? If you think about it from kindergarten on, you're expected to perform all of your work, right? By yourself.
[00:36:45] Sallie: And those who are lauded are those who are capable of doing it entirely on their own without the assistance of the teacher or other friends or cheating or the book or whatever.
[00:36:56] Cait: Mm-hmm.
[00:36:57] Sallie: And we get used to the idea that we have to be a hundred percent self-sufficient. And that is absolutely not true.
[00:36:34] Sallie: It's not serving us in most areas of our lives. And so I think that easiest thing is just ask for help, right? And the very act of vulnerability that comes from merely uttering those words, you are going to shift the energy, the paradigm, your life merely by doing that. And yes, then there are many actions that you have to take for that, but it is, it is the opening of the door and you will begin to automatically feel different simply by engaging in that one action. I promise you.
[00:37:44] Cait: Yes. Good advice. It's so true. I've really enjoyed this. Thank you so much for...
[00:37:49] Sallie: Me too.
[00:37:50] Cait: …talking with me and I'm hoping we'll speak again.
[00:37:55] Sallie: Me too. I would love that. Yes. There's just so much we're capable of doing and creating. And you know, I just read this last night. I was reading a white paper on female entrepreneurs because that's what I do and help women make more money now. It's my ultimate passion. And you know, we are the key to creating massive ripple effects in the world. When women have more money, the economic impact on the world and our household and our poverty levels will diminish dramatically. So, you know, think about what your small shift can do. It can make massive impacts.
[00:38:43] Sallie: And I think that that's just really incredibly powerful to know.
[00:38:47] Cait: It is.
[00:38:47] Sallie: So yeah, let's all do it.
[00:38:49] Cait: Yeah, let's do it.
[00:38:51] Sallie: Yes.
[00:38:52] Cait: Yay. Thank you, thank you, thank you so much. I really appreciate your time. And this was so great. I'm thrilled with this conversation.
[00:39:01] Sallie: Thank you so much for having me, Cait. I really appreciate it. It was a lot of fun.
[00:39:07] Cait: Do you want to enhance your sober care routine? Head to Clearheaded.co for tips, tricks, tools, and more on this episode. And if you're someone who likes to watch podcasts, we are on YouTube. Clearheaded podcast is sponsored by Free Spirits. Head to drinkfreespirits.com and use code clearheaded20 for 20% off your first order.
[00:38:58] Cait: This episode was produced by Alexis Archuleta. All the music used was created by honeydu. Oh yeah. We have a Spotify playlist too. Ah, there's a lot to check out. Anyways. See you next week.