S2Ep25|| the journey ahead
Cait and Generation Dry host Kayla Lyons talk the many ups and downs on the path to sobriety.
The best way to describe this conversation with Kayla Lyons is—it's not the destination, it's the journey. Kayla joins Cait and Sara today as she shares the many ups and downs of her path to sobriety. Ultimately, Kayla laid out two options for herself—continue the toxic lifestyle she was living or pivot.
From making conscious decisions to drink to leaving AA and carving her own recovery program, there are so many layers to Kayla’s journey. She had her moment of clarity sitting in traffic, driving through the Grapevine in California.
At 23-years-old, Kayla also has her own podcast called Generation Dry. You might have heard about the Generation Dry podcast from the 1,000 Hours Dry or the Dry Club Instagram that has over 38,000 followers, or maybe you're familiar with an app that she worked on, The Reframe app.
In this episode, we talk about Kayla’s physical dependence on prescription drugs, her relationship with alcohol, and how she got to where she is today, celebrating almost 6 years of sobriety.
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Ep 25 - Kayla Lyons
[00:00:00] Kayla: If alcohol was all bad and you never had any good experiences, then we wouldn't be drinking it. Right. Like you, we can't just, I can't sit here and be like, Ugh, it's just so terrible everything about it, because that wouldn't be true. It helped me get through a lot of things. And it was a survival mechanism.
[00:00:17] Kayla: Mm-hmm but that doesn't mean that it's healthy. And it doesn't mean that it's adaptive either.
[00:00:23] Cait: Welcome to the Clearheaded podcast. I'm Cait Madry, your host, and I'm so happy you're here. This is the podcast that drops in on people's moments of clarity surrounding their sobriety. Super LA of me, but I like to start every episode with a deep breath in.
[00:00:41] Cait: So if you're driving to work or you're on your way to run some errands, or maybe you're in bed, getting ready to wind down, let's just start with a deep breath in and out.
[00:00:58] Cait: Okay. Let's get clear headed. I feel like the best way to describe this conversation is it's not the destination. It's the journey. And boy, do we talk about our guest journey on this episode, Sara is back in studio with me.
[00:01:16] Cait: Co-hosting this delicious conversation we have with Kayla Lyons. She also has her own podcast called Generation Dry. You might have heard about Generation Dry Pod from the Thousand Hours Dry or the Dry Club Instagram that has over 38,000 followers. Or maybe you're familiar with an app that she worked on, The Reframe app.
[00:01:39] Cait: There are so many layers to her journey, just like every other guest that we've had on. But what was interesting about Kayla's journey is that she had her moment of clarity sitting in traffic, driving through the grapevine.
[00:01:53] Kayla: I think a lot of people ask, especially when you're talking to somebody who is like sober curious, or who's trying to stop drinking and they're like, "Well, how did you know when you were done?".
[00:02:04] Kayla: And I'm like, well, I had a lot of moments when I thought that I knew. And then for me, and it was quite a lovely event. Not at all. I'm like driving back from Bakersfield. I know you guys are semi-familiar with the area and I was living in LA. Yeah, I was dating a meth addict up there. So, had a really wild night, ended up breaking into a hospice and sleeping in it cuz that's where my grandparents were and like ruining a huge family function cuz everybody was in town to kind of say their goodbyes.
[00:02:40] Kayla: And of course I have to make it all about myself. So I'm driving back from Bakersfield to Los Angeles and I'm coming down really hard. So I've like, you know, for me, I was not physically dependent on alcohol, but I was physically dependent on medication on benzodiazepins, to be specific. So like Valium, Xanax, Klonopin, the good stuff.
So I did not have any drugs. I did not have any alcohol on me and I was coming down really hard driving through the grapevine and then there's some wildfire. So what's supposed to be like a two hour drive ends up being like a five to six hour drive, cuz I'm stuck in traffic. So I'm like going through detox, sitting in the car.
[00:03:21] Cait: Wow.
[00:03:22] Kayla: Like throwing up in a McDonald's cup and there's, I can't go anywhere, right? So I'm like having panic attacks. There's no cellular. So like the universe is like telling me something, right?
[00:03:33] Cait: Yeah.
[00:03:33] Kayla: Cause it's like, you really need to think about the path that you're heading down. And for me that was kind of that moment, like literally this literal and metaphorical kind of purgatory.
[00:03:44] Kayla: That I could not leave, just sitting in that car kind of thinking about, you know, what, what do I want my life to look like? Cause I'm, I'm only 23, but I had like, you know, dropped outta school. I had ruined all my friendships. You know, my life took an absolute way, different turn than I started off as a bio major, gonna, you know, pre-med and then ended up a waitress in Bakersfield.
[00:04:09] Kayla: Like not hating on being a waitress in Bakersfield, but that was like not my journey.
[00:04:13] Cait: Right.
[00:04:14] Kayla: You know, so in that moment I had, I guess, some sort of like enlightened moment where I kind of just saw how my life could go one of two ways. And I absolutely was like, okay, I'm not gonna go, the way that I'm currently going. Because I'm gonna either die early or I'm gonna end up doing even harder drugs or, you know, who knows, but I'm not gonna be happy.
[00:04:40] Kayla: And you know, it's not even fun anymore at that point. Like, I wasn't even drinking because I enjoyed it. I was just doing it because I didn't know how to do anything else. I didn't know how to cope with my feelings. Yeah. I mean, I like it, it just stopped being fun. So I couldn't even like validate my use anymore.
so at the time I just, when I finally got off of the grapevine and got back into LA, I actually went to an AA meeting. Cause I went to rehab in Los Angeles. So I was semi-familiar with like the more traditional program stuff there.
[00:05:10] Cait: Yeah.
[00:05:10] Kayla: So I was like, all right, like I don't know what to do, but I do know how to go to a meeting.
[00:05:14] Kayla: And I know that somebody there will know what to do when I get there. And that was kind of the, the beginning of what is, what will be six years in July.
[00:05:23] Cait: Wow. Six years. Woohoo. Yeah. Well, there's so many good realizations that you just shared. First of all, I appreciate you being honest, that there are multiple moments where you thought you had it figured out and you didn't. And I really appreciate that you are being honest about kind of your rock bottom and how it wasn't cute. It wasn't, you know, put together. And that you had to get there in order to look at those two options of, do I wanna keep going this way or do I wanna pivot?
[00:05:56] Kayla: Absolutely.
[00:05:57] Cait: And I really love that you just said, I don't know really the, all of the steps that I'm going to take, but I do know I'm going to go to a meeting.
[00:06:09] Cait: Yeah. And you took the first step that worked for you and your journey. And I think that that's important to like spend a little time talking about. Because so often when we hit our rock bottoms or when we get to that point of like, oh shit, what am I, wow. This is where I am. Making such a huge change feels really overwhelming.
[00:06:30] Cait: And knowing that you can just take literally just one thing at a time, even if that's realizing, okay, this isn't what I want. That that's valid and that's still useful, you know?
[00:06:46] Kayla: Yeah. And I, I think it's scary for so many people, because like you said, you're like, I have no, nobody has the answer, right,
[00:06:55] Cait: yeah.
[00:06:55] Kayla: when you ask people in recovery. But what I do know is that for so many of us, and actually, I would say probably everybody, like I've never met anybody in recovery or in sobriety. Who was like, just woke up and was like, yeah, you know what, I'm gonna stop drinking today. And then just like, like never had a sober curious phase, never tried to cut back just was like, yeah, I'm not gonna do it anymore
[00:07:18] Kayla: you know. There's always little like seeds being planted, right? And for me, I had a very long sober curious phase. I think I knew from the beginning of my drinking career, I always drank differently. Even at like 15, 16 years old, I was getting in trouble. Yeah. And going to the alcohol classes and stuff like that.
[00:07:37] Kayla: Me and alcohol, just like were, I mean, we were homies for a while and then we were not homies. But I think so many people are like, what am I gonna do? But if you take a pause and you actually look back, you have a toolkit, you, you might not even know is really there. So kind of like what you said, you know, I went to the, to the meeting and it would seem random, right.
[00:08:00] Kayla: If you were just to listen to my story and go like, well, how would, you know how to go to a meeting? Like, yeah, people know what AA is, but like, how do you know which one to go to, there are rules, et cetera, et cetera. But I had been to rehab like a year earlier in Los Angeles and, you know, they took me, they take you to like two AA meetings a day.
[00:08:20] Kayla: So. I would say, even though I knew before even rehab, I had taken breaks from alcohol. I gave up alcohol, like I'm not even a practicing Catholic. And I was like, I'll give it up for lent. And then I was like, well, I can't really give it all up. So like, I'll give up liquor. And that turned into like, well, I'll drink liqueur.
[00:08:39] Kayla: So I would like take shots of liqueur at the bar. Like you, you know, I, all the things that it's funny enough, all the things that we do, like at Reframe. To give people like telling them to cut back. If you're, if you don't have a problem with alcohol, if you're not truly in your alcohol use disorder, they work, right?
[00:08:55] Kayla: Yeah. Like you can moderate properly, but if there's an underlying issue, these things don't work. So I did all the checks and nothing was working for me. And so, you know, going to rehab and doing all those things, all those mini seeds had been planted I think. So when, and Mark Lewis, talks about this in his book, The Biology of Desire, we all can have this threshold
[00:09:18] Kayla: in our brain for like disgust or pain for certain things. And I think in that moment, when I was driving, you know, in pain, I finally hit my threshold for this experience. Kind of like when you eat something for the first time and then you get sick and afterwards you're like, I'm never eating this again.
[00:09:35] Cait: Yeah.
[00:09:35] Kayla: And it only takes one time.
[00:09:37] Cait: Yeah.
[00:09:37] Kayla: You're like, wow. Why couldn't alcohol be that way?
[00:09:40] Cait: Yeah.
[00:09:40] Kayla: Cause I had many bad experiences and I kept going back. yeah, but. Yeah, it, you, I think if you look back, you have those seeds, you have those nuggets, you just have to kind of really sit with yourself and, you know, self actualize and, and be honest and be like, all right, well, am I gonna just keep going like this?
[00:10:01] Cait: Yeah.
[00:10:01] Kayla: Or am I gonna use the tools that I have and reach out?
[00:10:06] Cait: Yeah. And sometimes it takes time. I mean, you, you mentioned that you and alcohol were homies for a little bit. And I think Sara and I can both relate to it. I mean, honestly, I think anybody can relate to it. I think alcohol can seem like it helps in so many different aspects of your life until you kind of reframe the way that you see it and think about it.
[00:10:28] Cait: And then it's, it's no longer. But, when you did realize that it wasn't beneficial to you, did you ever have a period of like grieving the idea that alcohol was gonna help at all? I asked that because I went through that grief. Sometimes I still go through it. It's like, especially with how hectic everything is right now.
[00:10:51] Cait: Sometimes I think, Ugh, I grieve the idea that it's a solution. And I think that that's part of the process.
[00:10:59] Kayla: It's like of knowing that it doesn't actually make anything better. Yeah. There was definitely a period. Well, most of my life that I was like, well, I can drink so right. I don't really care about what else is going on.
[00:11:11] Kayla: Right. Yeah. And then you stop and you realize actually how much worse it's making everything.
[00:11:15] Cait: Yeah. And that comes with kind of like a sweet...
[00:11:17] Kayla: it was sad. It was probably one of the like saddest hardest days of my life. But like the best at the same time.
[00:11:23] Cait: Yeah.
[00:11:24] Kayla: You know, it was bittersweet.
[00:11:25] Cait: What was your experience with that? Did you have that at all?
[00:11:28] Kayla: Yeah. And I think, like you said, I still, you still have moments, like, no matter how much quote, unquote, like time you have, because I mean, ignorance is bliss, right? It's easy enough for us when we're drinking to just say, you know, have a fucking moment with whatever's going on. And I think especially like when I was so young and in college and that's like, when things...
[00:11:49] Kayla: College and right after college, when things were it's worse for me. But then again, I got, you know, sober young. So I imagine it could have gotten much worse. yeah. But yeah, I think, you know, like I said, if alcohol was all bad and you never had any good experiences, then we wouldn't be drinking it. Right.
[00:12:11] Kayla: Like you, we can't just, I can't sit here and be like, ugh it's just so terrible everything about it, because that wouldn't be true. it helped me get through a lot of things. and it was a survival mechanism. Mm-hmm , but that doesn't mean that it's healthy and it doesn't mean that it's adaptive either.
[00:12:28] Cait: Right.
[00:12:28] Kayla: And so, you know, like when I, when I need to process all of this emotion, the trauma, everything that I had dealt with, and then realize like, for me, I probably wasn't until later in my sobriety, because at first I, I used more traditional programming and it was so I was taught, you know, alcoholism is a disease and it's just something you can't do, you know, you're you were born like this.
[00:12:55] Kayla: And so I had a certain mindset about it. And so I did grieve the idea, but it was more of like, Why me , mm-hmm , you know, like it is really unfair that all of these other people can drink alcohol and they can be fine or they can cut back. But that no matter what, apparently I'm doomed. So I had to kind of go through that grieving phase, but then later on when I left program and kind of carved my own recovery path, through doing a lot of research and, you know, because, and it seems so long ago, but this was like before quit lit was a thing before there was sober Instagram.
[00:13:31] Kayla: Yeah. Anything like that. So it was really just, I was reading a lot of like neuroscience books and addiction and habit books and things like that. But I think my grieving period happened when I, when I ruined alcohol for myself. And when I knew too much, because I think this goes back to, to Vegas and to what I'm very open about, which is that I've drank a couple of times in my recovery.
[00:13:58] Kayla: They're not slips. They weren't relapses either. I had mindful moments of making a conscious decision to drink. But because of everything that I knew because of the life I had built for myself, I had made it so unattractive that I couldn't even enjoy it.
[00:14:15] Cait: Yeah.
[00:14:16] Kayla: Even as somebody who considers myself fully recovered from alcohol use disorder, and have on a couple of occasions drink, you know, they say like a gentleman, if you can go drink like a gentleman, then go drink like a gentleman.
[00:14:29] Kayla: And I totally did. And all I could think about was like, oh my God, this is gonna exacerbate my anxiety later. I just lightened my teeth earlier this week. And I only like cred wine. And, you know, what if I act a fool and just you know. That was hard to where, when I'm going through, like currently I'm going through a separation.
[00:14:47] Kayla: So I'm chilling at my parents' house in Ohio, not living my best life. And figuring out like, what the fuck am I gonna do? You know, because we, we had this life built and now it's, I'm having to completely start over from scratch. And it would be really nice to just, like you said, just kick it and have like a bottle of barefoot. Mm-hmm
[00:15:08] Kayla: Yeah. And I just could not, right. Like, I couldn't do it. I couldn't even force myself to do it if I wanted to, because I just know too much about it now. And I think that's when I get angry that I'm like, why do I know so much? Fuck. Like, if I knew nothing, I could just numb out and, and forget about it, but.
[00:15:27] Kayla: Now I have all these healthy coping mechanisms. So it reminds me of that, like, funny, reel that went around for a while. That was like going on a stupid mental health walk for my stupid mental health mm-hmm and that's how I feel now when I'm like, oh, I have to, I have unhealthy coping mechanisms. I think we all do, but they are not as maladaptive or as dangerous as drinking was to me.
[00:15:49] Cait: I think that's important to like still have those. Like Sara and I have a literal candy drawer in our house. We're feeling it candy a we can candy candy, candy, or an energy drink, you know, like there, you would still just cuz you're sober or non-drinker. Doesn't mean that you have to just now be like a wellness guru too.
[00:16:13] Cait: You can still like, give yourself that go. I know there's totally this pressure around it. And also like with what you're saying.
[00:16:22] Cait: Yeah. It's I think it's like, I think it's part of the journey of being like thankful for your sobriety and also like a little bit bummed that, you know, so much. Because just hearing that I'm not alone in feeling that sometimes from another person is helpful.
[00:16:43] Cait: Because it's not always easy. It is better.
[00:16:46] Kayla: Yeah.
[00:16:46] Cait: I'm thankful that I don't wanna go grab tequila. I'm thankful that I'm not waking up hungover. I'm thankful that I remember the way that I'm feeling in this moment of sorrow, because I can grow and learn and journal and fucking evolve from it. But it's also kind of a bummer when you're in it to feel like you have no escape.
[00:17:06] Cait: That is like a fix like that.
[00:17:08] Kayla: Yeah. What is, I think we're all, we're all escape artists. Right? And then absolutely. We have, we have no escape or like you said, yeah, we have candy or like, I, I admittedly I will allot myself one, one, like black and mild a month if I really need it. Which is like so gross, but I'm like, no.
[00:17:29] Kayla: Oh, fuck it. Like, I need, like you said, I cannot be this perfect you know, what is that? It's like the eighties movement, people refer to like sober people. I actually don't know. I wish I knew this too. So it's, it's funny because it's, it's like a popular term and it's where, fuck.
[00:17:46] Kayla: But it, it basically, it means, and it was kind of where I got 'em. Now it's really gonna bother me.
[00:17:54] Cait: Wait, I might Google it while you're thinking or while you're talking. Cause I'm curious.
[00:17:57] Kayla: Like, so basically it'll come to me, but it was a movement in like the eighties for like grunge rock. People who still wanted to like, you know, have a good time, but, they didn't drink.
[00:18:10] Kayla: They didn't smoke. I think it's always straight edge, straight edge. Yes. Straight edge. Oh mh gosh, Straight Edge.
[00:18:16] Sara: We just had this conversation.
[00:18:17] Cait: We did.
[00:18:18] Sara: You're like, what is that called?
[00:18:19] Kayla: So that's what I'm thinking. Straight edge. Yeah. But I feel like a lot of people think you have to become yes - straight edge wellness, guru, Instagram model, fitness, vegan, vegan, gluten free person. Which you can.
[00:18:34] Kayla: But like also, it's not a good idea to like quit everything at once. Yeah.
[00:18:38] Sara: Because then you can just like sling shot. Yeah.
[00:18:41] Cait: Also like they can happen in phases. So what do you feel like you're six years in now? What phase do you feel like you're at? I know that, you know, you mentioned you're kind of in maybe what you would think of as like a setback in some way, or like you're back in Ohio and I'm sure there are triggers of like, when was the last time you were there?
[00:19:02] Cait: But how would you describe this phase of your sobriety?
[00:19:06] Kayla: Hmm, I guess it's it's now for me, it's just kind of part of my lifestyle at this point. Yeah. And I think I felt this way for a little while. It it's not something I have to think about anymore. Like in the first year or two, it was like I'm sober. I gotta wake up.
[00:19:26] Kayla: I gotta really work at my recovery, you know. And not to say that I don't do preventative measures every day. I'm I'm I try and be proactive. And so I don't get to a place where I'm like prelapsing, you know? And kind of circling the bowl. Mm-hmm I don't like, like to say right. I'm I'm getting separated.
[00:19:49] Kayla: I'm having to figure out like, you know, I, I gave my partner a house. I have to go in, in a couple weeks and, and go back to Cali and get my car and get my dog and put my stuff in storage and come back here and I'm gonna hang out for a little while. Cause I might as well save some money before I go back. I mean, you guys know I'm in Newport beach.
[00:20:09] Kayla: Yeah. LA it's so fucking expensive. Oh my. I'm like, why don't I just chill for a couple of months, save some money, you know? Yeah. But the thing is to your point, I actually didn't grow up here. So my parents moved here like six years ago to take care of my grandparents. So unfortunately, cause, and I thought that too, I was like, maybe I'll go back to Maryland, for like a week or so just to like hang with my old homies, which I dunno how good of it.
[00:20:34] Kayla: It honestly would not be, wouldn't be a bad idea. That would be more like going back to Blacksburg. Where I went to college. But, I think, you know, with all of this shit going on for me, where it's like going through a breakup with somebody who I've been best friends with with, for 10 years, which I think is harder for me than the romantic aspect, it's like, where's our, where where's our friendship gonna end up after this.
[00:20:59] Kayla: And then having to rebuild this idea of, you know, this is the person you were planning on getting, we were getting get, you know, we talked about marriage, we talked about kids, looked at other houses to buy, you know? So you really like, and I'm, I'm somebody who like I have like a three month plan, a six month plan, a five year plan.
[00:21:19] Kayla: And so. If you fuck up my narrative. Sorry. Like it's okay. I totally, and part of it is like I have OCD, so I'm, I'm comfortable when I'm in my ritual. Mm-hmm so having to practice acceptance again, which I think has been helpful as somebody who's sober because you have to practice so much acceptance of things that not necessarily you can't do anymore.
[00:21:43] Kayla: Cause I feel like that's such a negative way to, to put it, but right. You know, you have to accept. That this is a new lifestyle. You have to accept that things are gonna be different or that some friends are not gonna treat you the same. And you know, you kind of have to relearn how to walk and relearn how to do things.
[00:22:01] Kayla: Yeah. You have to accept that you have feelings. Mm-hmm. And that's like the worst one. So just like chilling here and then I'm also, you know, I work full time. I'm writing a book and wow. So it's all, it's like all happening at the worst time, you know? I'm like, you couldn't have done this. Like when I was done writing the fucking book,
[00:22:21] Kayla: right? You asshole. But then again, it's like, maybe it's the perfect time, because this is when I need to do the most self-reflection and sit and not worry about what my partner's going through and, and helping him. And, you know, just do a lot of introspection and, you know, set myself up for what's next.
[00:22:41] Kayla: And I'm really lucky that I'm at a point in my sobriety where, like I said, it doesn't really occur to me. Like I, I already know that a drink wouldn't fix anything. Which is exacerbate. I probably text him. Yeah. I probably post some passive aggressive shit on Instagram or go and, you know, go to a bum fuck bar here and like, right.
[00:23:01] Kayla: Do something stupid with somebody. Ew. You know, just right. I already know in the morning and it's all 10 times worse and like, not to be like petty, but like I'm trying to be the bigger person here. So I already know I am. But, but I'm trying to stay that way. Totally. And so I'm just, you know, reading a ton of books and listening to a ton of podcasts.
[00:23:26] Kayla: And really focusing on my meditation practice and my mindfulness practice. And as soon as I got here, I like found a hot yoga studio and I found a spin studio and just all the things that I knew that I needed. Yeah. In order to not, you know, totally collapse back into what for now I would say is alcohol is not my main focus anymore.
[00:23:48] Kayla: I would say I have to focus more on my mental health and not everybody who has, you know, an alcohol use disorder has a mental health issue, but it is a pretty substantial percentage. And so for me, it's, it's very much, I need to keep this preventative measures. Like I said, do everything. I have my little habit tracker.
[00:24:08] Kayla: I have my little notepad, you know, do everything to stay in the right mindset. And so I don't get to a place where I'm like, Hmm. Yeah. Well, you know, I'm watching my exes Instagram stories. And I'm like, well, fuck it. I'll go to the bar too and talk to somebody and just ruin it. It, it I've done it so many times before.
[00:24:32] Cait: Yeah.
[00:24:32] Kayla: And it didn't work.
[00:24:33] Cait: Yeah.
[00:24:34] Kayla: And so I think I'm just at a more self-actualized place where I'm like, all right, Kayla, like you're a grown up now. So you can't don't don't act like that. Like it it's gonna be gnarly, but I've been writing a lot for Reframe about how to like regulate and process our emotions.
[00:24:54] Kayla: And it was kind of perfect timing, right. Cause when you're, when you're grieving, you have to process the emotions. Yeah. Otherwise they get stuck. Yeah. And I feel like the untethered soul is a really good book that talks about that. I don't know if you guys have read it.
[00:25:10] Cait: I we've heard of it. Yeah.
[00:25:12] Kayla: It's, it's really good. And it's, and it's an easy read too, because it's kind of more like, eastern medicine. Like they talk a lot about chakras and, and I think that can, can turn a lot of people off, like what the fuck is a chakra?
[00:25:23] Cait: We're in it. We're like, so
[00:25:24] Kayla: I couldn't tell you though what a chakra was, but I liked the book. Because it, it basically explained, you know, like we all have life experiences, good ones, bad ones, et cetera.
[00:25:35] Kayla: And kind of imagine these little orbs that kind of like go through you, but when you don't process them or when you hold onto them, positive or negative, they just sit inside of you and then they fester and they get bigger. And then of course they block other things. So all of a sudden you have all this shit inside of you and that's why we drink.
[00:25:53] Kayla: That's why we, you know, use drugs, et cetera, like whatever your do C is. And so you have to first obviously stop whatever you're doing that keeps blocking it, which is alcohol. And that allow those chakras to move through you, which is extremely painful. I mean, you've been holding these things inside of you.
[00:26:12] Kayla: For who knows how long, you know, and they grow. And so remembering that and kind of imagining I have this like river inside of me that has, you know, there's always a little bit of something in there. Like I'm not like this fully awesome, like no damned river, but I'm like not about to like allow it to block up again.
[00:26:32] Kayla: So kind of like how you said, I'm just gonna like lay here and do what I need to and cry and grieve and you know, like write about it. And you know, talk shit with my friends and talk shit with strangers too. Like whoever will listen to me. And let this, let it pass. Because I know once it passes and it's already been, you know, about a month, I already feel 10 times better.
[00:26:56] Cait: Yeah.
[00:26:56] Kayla: Than when it happened. And I know that if I was trying to drink my way through this, not only would I still feel as shitty as I did in the beginning, but. None of it would be processed, right? And it would just be chilling, growing. And I think a lot of people don't get that. They think that like, oh, you know, I'm still crying or I'm so upset.
[00:27:18] Kayla: So I'm dealing with it. And you're like, no, bro, like you are not dealing with it.
[00:27:22] Cait: Yeah.
[00:27:22] Kayla: Like chemically, you're just not, it's not possible. So understanding that has been helpful.
[00:27:28] Cait: That makes a lot of sense. It, it really sounds like you are. I keep using this metaphor. Is it called a metaphor, Sara? Like an imagery.
[00:27:37] Sara: I didn't say it. I'll tell you, right.
[00:27:40] Cait: I keep using this metaphor where it's like, I feel like everyone is like wrapping up a season of their life and like teasing for the season to come. Like new cast, new setting. New obstacles, new highs, new lows, like a TV show. And it really sounds like you're like teasing for this next new season.
[00:28:01] Cait: You're writing a book, you are leaving a relationship. You're figuring out where you're going to plant your next home, where you wanna be, what you wanna do and how you wanna cope with everything that's being like tossed your way. And I wanna tune into that next season. So I'm really excited for you. And I, I hear how overwhelming all this,
[00:28:22] Cait: can feel. Or seems like it can feel to you at times. And it sounds like I would be very overwhelmed too, if I was in your position. But I'm truly excited to see where you are in the next month. Because to your point every month, that time goes on, you grow and you're present and you evolve if you're sober and present enough to allow that to happen.
[00:28:48] Cait: So I'm really excited for you. Well, as we close up, I want to just ask you, the last question that I, I tend to ask and you kind of already answered it with untethered soul. But, for anybody out there who is maybe in a position that's kind of similar to yours or feels like they're gonna start their, their sobriety journey.
[00:29:10] Cait: What is one tool that you suggest to add to their toolkit?
[00:29:16] Kayla: Mm that's a good one. I would definitely say for me. And I think we touched on this with kind of one of the things James Clear says, like in Anatomic Habits. Cuz you know, when you're creating a new habit or when you're trying to break an old habit, he says one of the four steps is make it unattractive.
[00:29:41] Kayla: And so I think having that goal of like, how can I make alcohol unattractive to me, kind of like an X, you know, to, to kind of stay on the metaphor train.
[00:29:51] Cait: Right?
[00:29:51] Kayla: When you learn about it when you research, when you use resources, right? So following different accounts on sober Instagram. And downloading or being a part of different programs that are, you know, evidence based doing a lot of reading and really understanding the mechanisms and what alcohol is doing to your body, what it's doing to your brain.
[00:30:17] Kayla: That to me, was all very helpful because it is really hard. And not to say you won't have moments where you slip or you do have, right. Like the fucking moment. Right, but it gets harder and harder to pick a drink back up. Like, you know, I said, when the wheels start turning and you understand kind of beforehand, I think you had kind of like that little now, I don't know what it's called, but, you know, like the, I imagine like the old school, like weight thing, you know, where you put one thing
[00:30:48] Cait: A scale.
[00:30:49] Kayla: Yeah. A scale, right.
[00:30:51] Cait: Yeah.
[00:30:51] Kayla: And beforehand there was like nothing there. Right? So you were just like, fuck it I'm gonna drink. And now you have all this stuff going on in your mind where you're like, all right, like, well, let me outweigh the pros and cons, like, you know, feeling good, better, not feeling anything for two hours, right.
[00:31:08] Kayla: Three hours, you know? Right. Probably gonna be blacked out. So probably more right. Versus how am I gonna feel tomorrow?
[00:31:15] Cait: Right.
[00:31:16] Kayla: What am I probably gonna do? Am I gonna get arrested? Like, am I gonna ruin my job? Like, am I going to get a DUI? Like, and everybody's different. Like, but for me, like I had mad consequences.
[00:31:27] Kayla: So I was like, when I have those moments, I really have to stop. And it's super old school, but they just say like, play, play the tape forward. Yeah. And ask yourself, like, is this really, a solution. Yeah. Or is it like a very, you know, temporary bandaid? That's actually like a really dirty bandaid that you got from like a puddle on the sidewalk.
[00:31:48] Cait: It's not gonna, it's really heal you.
[00:31:50] Kayla: Infected. Yeah. Right. And just think about it like that and plug in. I think having a support network, like, yes, you're doing it alone, essentially. Like nobody can quit for you. Mm-hmm and you have to quit for yourself. Ultimately like to stay. But you gotta have people in your life who support your journey.
[00:32:11] Kayla: You have to have people in your life who understand your journey, and they don't even have to be in real life people, but there's so many different programs. So don't be close-minded to like, well, I don't like religion, or I don't wanna get on an app or, you know, there's so many diff I could, you know, I could name like 20 programs off the top of my head that you could totally try. And just, it's like, kind of like you're at an ice cream shop, right? Like yeah. Taste them all. Yeah. See which one works for you? You'd be surprised at yeah. What's gonna work for you. And like you said, you evolve like over the last six years in my recovery, I went from being an AA and being an alcoholic to not being in AA anymore, and considering myself or a recovered alcoholic, then totally dropping the labels altogether.
[00:32:59] Kayla: And now not using really, like I say, I don't drink, I'll use sober, like, you know, whatever it's interchangeable. I consider myself in recovery.
[00:33:09] Cait: Yeah.
[00:33:09] Kayla: From a lot of things, right? I think we all are. But I'm not closed off to anything either. It's like, you know, if one day I'm in a place and I need to go back to a 12 step program, I know it's always gonna be open there for me.
[00:33:22] Cait: Yeah.
[00:33:22] Kayla: And same thing with, you know, with Reframe or with Thousand Hours Dry or with any of these other amazing communities that I've fostered or, you know, I'm connected to, it's really nice to know that, you know, when you're having a bad day, you can connect with somebody else. Like you said, who's just gonna get it because for a lot of us, we don't necessarily have those people just like in our home or in our family.
[00:33:48] Kayla: Or our inner circle. And so reminding yourself, you're not an alien, you're not isolated. I kind of think of, you know, we're the counter counter culture club. Yeah. Versus anything else. And we're just a little we're out of the curve. Yeah. You know, I think I genuinely think 15 ish, maybe even sooner 10, 15 ish years, the ball will get rolling with kind of the anti- alcohol movement, the same way that the anti- tobacco movement happened.
[00:34:17] Kayla: Yeah. And. You know, a couple generations down the road, people will look at drinking the way that people look at cigarettes now. Like, oh, you, you smoke or, oh, you drink why? Right. Totally. And no hate, you know, once then I'm not anti- alcohol. I, but I believe in informed consent. And I think that that is not really available right now.
[00:34:38] Kayla: You know, there's no nutrition labels on alcohol. It's not regulated by the FDA. It's completely romanticized. I think it's only one in five Americans knows that it's a carcinogenic, which, I mean, it should really be a scheduled one drug. Yeah, totally. And, and people have no idea, especially because most of our country is in a lower socioeconomic status and yeah, doesn't have the means.
[00:35:05] Kayla: To the education and the information. Yeah. The access and exactly. So it, I, it's really important to me to allow people to get the information and then what they do with that is totally their business. You know, like I said, I, I know exactly what black and mild do in cigarettes do and I allow myself perhaps once a month, because I know I'm not a perfect person.
[00:35:26] Kayla: And for me, it's better than picking up a drink.
[00:35:29] Cait: Yeah.
[00:35:29] Kayla: But I'm also a grown ass woman. And I also know the risks. Right. And so I do so with consent. Whereas I feel alcohol and the alcohol industry has been quite unethical as somebody who used to study this kind of psychology advertising and things like that.
[00:35:48] Kayla: It's it's really wrong. Yeah. And, that's kind of what I hope to do with the book that I'm writing andand that's you know what we do at Reframe and what we do at a Thousand Hours Dry and, you know, Generation Dry is just give people free information in a inclusive non-judgemental space that allows people to figure out their journey and write their own narrative on their own timeline in a supported space.
[00:36:16] Kayla: Yeah.
[00:36:17] Cait: Well community is important. And thanks for being part of our community today. I've love this conversation and I will continue to tune into your next season of life because I can't wait to see what you do.
[00:36:33] Kayla: Thank you. Tune in. Yeah. We'll see. I don't know what's gonna happen yet either. So tune in also.
[00:36:39] Kayla: It's gonna be a good
[00:36:39] Cait: cliff hanger.
[00:36:40] Kayla: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:36:42] Cait: Thank you so much. That was so great.
[00:36:44] Kayla: Thank you for having me.
[00:36:47] Cait: Clearheaded is sponsored by Free Spirits. Head to drink free spirits.com. And use code clearheaded 20 for 20% off your first order. This episode was recorded at the wave podcasting studios and the music used was created by honeydü. Special links to Sara Ashcraft for more tips, tricks, and tools head to our website, the clearheaded podcast.com.
