S3Ep33|| When It Works, It Works || with Aaron Sternberg
In this episode, Sara and I chat with our friend, Aaron Sternberg. Unlike our recent episodes, Aaron has had somewhat of a linear journey in his sobriety. It was after his parents sent him to rehab in his teenage years that he found his moment of clarity and chose to become sober.
We talk about what it took to get out of his comfort zone, the tools he learned and continued to use after rehab, and the importance of removing the result-mentality of being sober for X years versus learning to enjoy the work you put in to maintain sobriety. Despite his linear journey, Aaron acknowledges to the many triggers, trials, and tribulations he experienced and honors the emotional ebb and flow as he stays on a “straight path.”
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EP 33 - Aaron Sternberg
[00:00:00] Aaron: You know, I have my tribe. It's like you find your group of people. And like, I work with them on what's happening in my life, my service. Whereas like I might use to take a lot of people through the steps. Now it's like showing up for people to help them move, answering the phone when I don't want to, calling my mom to see how she's doing, helping my sister get a car, not to pay for it, but go, you know, teach her how to do what I know how to do.
[00:00:19] Aaron: So doing things that I don't necessarily want to do. Like there's this huge part of my sobriety that is service, staying in tune with that in a way that evolves.
[00:00:29] Cait: Welcome to the Clearheaded podcast, your guide to sober care. I'm your host, Cait, and I'm so glad that you're here. Maybe you're on your way to work or you're ready to wind down for the night, whatever the case may be - I'm really happy to be here with you. All of these episodes drop in on people's moments of clarity surrounding their sobriety. Before we get started on this conversation, I want to ground each other with a little bit of breath work. Let's start by taking a big deep breath in...and out.
[00:01:05] Cait: Okay. Let's get Clearheaded.
[00:01:09] Cait: Aaron, hi.
[00:01:11] Aaron: Hello.
[00:01:12] Sara: Aaron, so dramatic.
[00:01:13] Cait: I know Sara's back in studio with us. She's off camera behind. Monitoring our sound. We have Aaron here who I'm like really excited to get to know your story more. Because I know you. We know each other and on a friendship level. You were friends with Sara for a long time, still are.
[00:01:31] Cait: Had seen Sara through her ebbs and flows of sobriety.
[00:01:35] Sara: He's laughing because there was so many levels to it and he was kind of there for all of them.
[00:01:42] Aaron: It was a wild ride.
[00:01:43] Sara: It was.
[00:01:44] Cait: And I feel like through her wild ride, you were pretty mellow. Like in your ride, you've been pretty linear.
[00:01:51] Aaron: Yeah.
[00:01:51] Cait: Which is, I mean, maybe it's rare, maybe it's not, I don't know. Our biggest thing is that sobriety isn't linear for everyone and just to be graceful with that, if that is your journey. But I'll start with the question I ask every guest, which is, if you can go back to the time where you realize that alcohol wasn't serving you anymore.
[00:02:11] Cait: What was that like?
[00:02:12] Aaron: Well, I got sober when I was 17, so that was 13 years ago, which is crazy to say out loud. It's so funny when you first get sober, you like count the days and now it's like a, probably in the thousands. I have no idea.
[00:02:26] Cait: Yeah.
[00:02:26] Aaron: But that moment for me was, it happened over a period of time I guess. I got sent to rehab by my parents and I didn't really have a choice in the matter at first.
[00:02:34] Aaron: And I had no intention of staying sober for as long as I did. When I got sent through rehab, I did not see my life ending up how it is now. I was very much a fuck up. I don't know how else to say that. I did not do well in school. I did not graduate high school. I hung out with the bad kids.
[00:02:51] Aaron: I was a menace to my parents and really anyone that was around me. And a large part of that when you don't fit in is like finding... I don't know, I guess, a way to cope. And I wasn't thinking about it like that when I was that young, but...
[00:03:03] Cait: Yeah.
[00:03:03] Aaron: You know, when I was 13, 14, 15, I was like smoking, drinking, taking any pill I could find. Just to feel some sense of like ease, I guess.
[00:03:10] Cait: Yeah.
[00:03:10] Aaron: Because I felt like I was just battling everyone all the time.
[00:03:13] Cait: Yeah.
[00:03:14] Aaron: When you don't fit in, in school, you don't fit in with, you know, your family. It's like, fuck, like I need a break or something, you know what I mean? It's like, I need some way out and that's just where I found it. So I guess my moment...
[00:03:24] Aaron: ... and it's weird. I've always been in tune with myself in a way that I'm like really grateful for. And I always knew that it wasn't going to work out. Like I knew that like I could see the trajectory of my life. And like I knew when I was like, you know, 15, 16 and I was like, all right, well, I got to figure something.
[00:03:39] Aaron: Like, I wasn't big enough to face it then. But I knew that like, what I was doing was not going to, you know, it's, I was not going to end up where I am now, you know. I'd never envisioned like the life I'm living. So there was like this glimpse when I was like, you know, younger of like, okay, well maybe I need to like figure something out.
[00:03:55] Aaron: And then when I got sent to rehab, there was this moment. It was like a true moment of clarity. Like I was sitting, I was going to meetings and I was sitting outside of a meeting. And I had this like moment where I was like, what the fuck am I doing with my life? Like, I was like, I have this opportunity to like reset and re-center and like give myself a chance at life.
[00:04:14] Aaron: Like, because before I felt like, why does it matter? Like who cares? I'm not going to, I'm already this far behind I felt like. Like, what's the point? And I had this opportunity to like reset and that was sobriety. And from that moment on, it was like, I was just open-minded. It wasn't like I was completely sold. I didn't make a decision that I was going to be sober for the rest of my life, but it was like, okay, what I'm doing, isn't working at all.
[00:04:37] Aaron: Like, it's horrible. And I hate my life. So like, why not try something else? And that was kind of the spark.
[00:04:43] Cait: I think that that's awesome. Because there's so many things that you just said. First, I understand what you mean by just wanting to fit in. I think everybody... I'm sure if you took it back to everybody's story, especially with alcohol in our society, maybe gets started because of a sense to fit in.
[00:05:05] Cait: And then you try to fit in so much, you end up not fitting in and being left out because now it's tailspin and now you are sad and nothing's going the way you want it to. And you're actually removed from the group that you wanted to be in with. So I think it's just amazing that you were so young and you understood that.
[00:05:24] Cait: Granted you're probably sitting here now after years and years of reflecting and being able to like articulate it in that way.
[00:05:30] Aaron: Yeah, for sure, I had no idea at the time.
[00:05:32] Cait: But like you weren't like 17, like, oh, all of these... all of these well thought out understandings of myself. But the other part that you said is that you realized that if you just opened your mind a little bit and tried something that wasn't what you were doing, maybe it would result in something better.
[00:05:52] Cait: And I think dosing it in that way is so important because it feels really overwhelming.
[00:06:00] Aaron: Totally.
[00:06:00] Cait: To think that the rest of your life is going to be spent completely different than where you are now.
[00:06:05] Aaron: Yeah.
[00:06:06] Cait: Especially because like, I think for me, and I'm curious if you too, like now that you've lived this completely different way of life. For me, I was in such a comfort zone of like repetition, staying redundant. It's like coping.
[00:06:21] Aaron: Yeah.
[00:06:22] Cait: And then you take away that coping and you have to kind of learn other ways of being comfortable in that new life. Because you went to like a rehabilitation center that probably gave you a bunch of tools...
[00:06:34] Aaron: ...totally.
[00:06:35] Cait: That people like don't normally get. Like what, how did you start to cope in a different way?
[00:06:40] Aaron: So I took it... it's very much like one step at a time. Like when I, and I try and take this year of my life, like I try to stay out of the results of whatever I'm trying to do.
[00:06:49] Cait: Yeah.
[00:06:49] Aaron: It's like I could have a goal in mind. So for me it was like, I just wanted to find a way to be happy, right. Where I was like, totally I was always either angry or unhappy or unsettled. And it was just like, if what I'm doing clearly isn't working. And it still relates to this day. It's like, if I keep hitting my head against the wall, for some problem that I'm having in my life, it's like, clearly something I'm doing isn't working.
[00:07:09] Aaron: Let me go find someone. And this this is what I learned just through my recovery is like, I need to find someone that's dealt with something like this. And ask them for help. Or just advice on like what they did and what their experience was. Because clearly what I'm doing isn't... it's not the way.
[00:07:24] Aaron: So I.. and that's just been reinforced around my life. Is that like my best thinking, lands me in very precarious and sometimes not the best situation. So it's like constantly asking for help and seeking guidance. And now it's just like part of my life where like I have, you know, a group of people that I just bounce ideas off of.
[00:07:42] Aaron: And it's like, it takes time to build your little tribe or community, you know. But in terms of like coping it's more of just talking to people, understanding that like there might not be one right answer. And then I might have to try a few different things and that it's all good. It's like, I know that I'm going to be, I have just this like baseline of like, I'm going to be taken care of.
[00:07:59] Aaron: I have a very strong belief that like, I'm exactly where I need to be at all points in my life. And that's not like a, you know, God has like everything planned out for me. But it's more of like a, it's been proven to me just throughout my life that like, if I'm staying out of the results, staying out of my own way.
[00:08:16] Aaron: You know, being honest with people, talking about what's happening in my life, that like, I'm going to find a way through.
[00:08:20] Cait: So relevant to like everything in life.
[00:08:23] Aaron: Yeah.
[00:08:23] Cait: The results are what breed this disappointment.
[00:08:26] Aaron: Yeah.
[00:08:26] Cait: When you don't get the result, then you're like, Ugh, I didn't do it. Like with, you know, recovery for so long for me, I was like, I'm going to try 30 days.
[00:08:34] Cait: And I focused on that number, 30 days.
[00:08:36] Aaron: Yeah.
[00:08:37] Cait: And I'd get to day three. And I'd realize it was day three and it wasn't 30, and I'd throw in the towel.
[00:08:43] Aaron: Yeah.
[00:08:43] Cait: Because I didn't want to face the 27. So removing that result- mentality is so important. And I also feel like what you're saying to me, I hear that you've like developed a trust in yourself.
[00:08:58] Aaron: Yeah.
[00:08:58] Cait: And I think having trust in yourself is really what allows you to know that, like you can stumble, you can fall, you can scrape your freaking knee. You can break your leg, literally. And you'll still recover and heal and trusting that you have the ability and the tools and the capability to recover in any facet that you fall in.
[00:09:15] Cait: Not just in sobriety, but like in business, in friendships.
[00:09:18] Aaron: Yeah.
[00:09:18] Cait: In relationships. But that trust takes time to build.
[00:09:22] Aaron: Totally.
[00:09:23] Cait: What was it like when you were first... because you were also so young?
[00:09:26] Aaron: Yeah, I was really young.
[00:09:27] Cait: I think of 17 year old me and how...hard it would be.
[00:09:30] Aaron: ... well, I grew up really fast. I was like four. It's such a weird, I feel like I have such a, not that, like, I'm a crazy, unique, weird person. But I've just had like a unique experience, especially like growing up in LA and like not drinking and like everyone around you is drinking...
[00:09:42] Aaron: ... I don't know. It's like, it goes back to like the results thing and it's like, yeah, like, I don't want to set, like, let's say it's like the 30 day goal, right. And it's like, fuck I’m on day three. But then you get to day 30 and it's like, fuck I still feel like shit.
[00:09:51] Cait: Mm-hmm.
[00:09:52] Aaron: You know what I mean? So...
[00:09:53] Cait: Right.
[00:09:53] Aaron: It's... for me, it was okay like, another example, like, this is just a random story. When I was 17, 18, I like loved coffee. It was like something that I like attached to. And like, I loved fancy coffee and I thought that like my life, I would be like a coffee guy. Like that was like, my goal was to like roast coffee, not just like brew it, but like actually make it.
[00:10:12] Aaron: So I got a job at Stumptown. Basically I was driving around LA in a van, delivering coffee places in hopes that like, I could be an apprentice to like the coffee roaster guy. Long story short, I get that. I do it for a year or two. And I'm like, fuck, this sucks.
[00:10:26] Cait: Yeah.
[00:10:27] Aaron: So it was like realizing that like, I can have this goal or like, I just... there's so many points in my life where I'm like, if I get this, I'll be happy.
[00:10:34] Cait: Right.
[00:10:34] Aaron: If I do this, I'll be happy. And then you get it. You do the hard work. And time after time, it's like, well, maybe that's not it. And I quit. And like, you know, I'm doing other things now. But it was like, and I could tell you other stories and like very similar things happening, but it's like... staying out of the results. And like... it's important to achieve things, right.
[00:10:51] Aaron: It's important to get your 30 days or 60 days or 90 days or whatever you're counting for, right. Because it's important to show yourself that you can do things. For me, it's just realizing like my best thinking, thinking that I know like if I get this, I'll be happy. Time and time again, it's like, I'm happy doing the work.
[00:11:05] Cait: Right. It's a tethering.
[00:11:06] Aaron: Yeah.
[00:11:06] Cait: It's a tethering of the happiness is going to be gained when I get this.
[00:11:10] Aaron: Yeah.
[00:11:11] Cait: Or when I see that. Or when I achieve this. But really it's like the goal and the mission, if you had to put a resolution to aim for, is just the happiness. It's not the, when you get it to get happiness, it's just to seek out that happiness or just to seek out that confidence. Or validation. Or... peace.
[00:11:32] Aaron: Yeah.
[00:11:32] Cait: Zooming it out even. Yeah, it sounds like you do have a unique story. I mean, everybody's story is unique.
[00:11:38] Aaron: Yeah, everyone does.
[00:11:39] Cait: You know, but...
[00:11:40] Aaron: ... yeah.
[00:11:40] Cait: So, since you've had such a linear journey... have you had a linear journey?
[00:11:47] Aaron: I mean, there are definitely ups and... it, you know, it's, it's been so long, it's such a trip, you know. It's like, I can think back at being like 18, 19, and like I still, and I'll go back to saying like, I don't know if I'm going to be sober the rest of my life.
[00:11:57] Cait: Right.
[00:11:57] Aaron: Like, I don't think about it like, I'm going to be sober forever, like...
[00:12:00] Cait: ... of course.
[00:12:01] Aaron: I think about it. And this is where it's like, it was really basic for me. And the fact that like, I'm going to do what I think is going to bring happiness and joy into my life.
[00:12:10] Cait: Yeah.
[00:12:11] Aaron: And I've found that like, not drinking does that.
[00:12:13] Cait: Yeah.
[00:12:13] Aaron: And I haven't been shown a reason why drinking or doing drugs is going to bring that back for me. So like linear, it's like, I mean, I've been laid off. I mean, there's, you know, it's just like life happens, right?
[00:12:25] Cait: Yes.
[00:12:25] Aaron: But like.. I don't - my lows, are not as low as they used to be.
[00:12:29] Cait: Yeah.
[00:12:30] Aaron: You know, there's no thought. Like there were... when I was 15, 16, there's thoughts of suicide.
[00:12:34] Aaron: I mean, it's like, it's... I hated my fucking life. And like, I'm not saying that the minute I got sober, it was all better. But it was like the more work I've put into myself and that's, you know, I've got sober in AA and like, I know AA is not for everyone, but it like really worked for me. And like the minute I like decided to turn my life over, to like a higher power.
[00:12:55] Aaron: Which I'm not like religious by any means. But like, I do have a very strong belief that like, there's something bigger...
[00:13:00] Cait: ... yeah.
[00:13:00] Aaron: In the world. I really decided that like, hey, if I believe in this, that like, I'm going to be okay.
[00:13:05] Cait: Yeah.
[00:13:05] Aaron: Like, no matter what. When I talk about linear, it's like, yes, there's ups and downs, but I made a decision and I live by that, that like, I'm going to be okay.
[00:13:11] Cait: Yeah.
[00:13:12] Aaron: As long as I'm, you know, being honest and taking the right indicated action and not fucking people over it's like not being shady.
[00:13:18] Cait: Totally.
[00:13:19] Aaron: I'm going to be good. It's been linear, but it's...
[00:13:22] Cait: ... emotionally ups and downs.
[00:13:24] Aaron: Exactly, yeah.
[00:13:24] Cait: Which is good, yeah.
[00:13:25] Aaron: Totally.
[00:13:25] Cait: I mean, I think that's a fair point to point out. Just because you have stayed sober this whole time doesn't mean there haven't been triggers or trials or tribulations.
[00:13:32] Aaron: Totally.
[00:13:33] Cait: And you haven't had to overcome different viewpoints or temptations. And I mean, when you go through 13 years of it, I mean, you go through 13 years of taking alcohol out of it.
[00:13:43] Aaron: Yeah.
[00:13:44] Cait: You say, I'm not eating cake for 13 years of your life.
[00:13:47] Aaron: Totally.
[00:13:47] Cait: You know how many birthday parties you got to go to and weddings? Or there's cake involved and you have to, oh, that's a new kind of cake. And do I want to try that kind of cake? Well, I've never had that kind of cake. I mean, there's so many things that are just going to come up.
[00:13:58] Cait: And I think it's good to note that like, even in a linear journey, there's still an ebb and flow and you're going to have to adjust emotionally. As you stay on a quote straight path.
[00:14:11] Aaron: Yeah.
[00:14:12] Cait: What I find is so interesting about everything you're saying is I notice this like two tone. Where for you, you had to look inside and really focus on what made you happy.
[00:14:26] Cait: Keeping it to yourself and doing it strictly for you.
[00:14:30] Aaron: Mm-hmm.
[00:14:30] Cait: And then there's this other side of it, where it's like not, not focusing on yourself and being open to letting other people guide you.
[00:14:41] Aaron: Mm-hmm.
[00:14:42] Cait: Which I think can be a hard thing to balance.
[00:14:44] Aaron: Totally.
[00:14:44] Cait: You know, so often people who get sober, stay sober. Have a challenge with kind of the naysayers of like, you're self involved, or you're focusing too much on yourself.
[00:14:57] Aaron: Yeah.
[00:14:58] Cait: I mean, I've come up to that, for sure, with family members, not liking one, focusing on myself so much. Like how do... what's advice for balancing that?
[00:15:09] Aaron: For instance, it's like a huge part of my recovery and my sobriety is like service to others.
[00:15:13] Cait: Yeah.
[00:15:13] Aaron: And that like, there's this saying, when, you know, you're thinking, like, when I'm thinking about you, it's a lot easier being me, right? And that doesn't mean that I need to be codependent with people and be walked over. But a huge part of the program, a huge part of AA is service, right?
[00:15:27] Aaron: And that's in my life. It's funny, you go to meetings and it's like services making coffee or...
[00:15:34] Cait: .... mm-hmm.
[00:15:34] Aaron: Putting chairs away. Or like, whatever chores they have you doing there, you'll find that like, and I'm not, I love AA, but you'll see that people are like really good at doing AA. And they're really good at like being of service in these meetings.
[00:15:45] Cait: Mm-hmm.
[00:15:46] Aaron: But then when you go out into the real world, they're like shitty to their fucking partners.
[00:15:50] Cait: Right.
[00:15:51] Aaron: Or they're showing up late to work.
[00:15:52] Cait: Right.
[00:15:53] Aaron: X, Y, or Z. For me, it's like, I had to learn how to take what I learned in my recovery and like bringing that to the rest of the world. And that means first I need to be okay.
[00:16:03] Cait: Yeah.
[00:16:03] Aaron: I need to be okay with myself. But then like what Sara was talking about earlier, I watched Sara in her ups and downs. But at no point was I like, you need to get sober.
[00:16:11] Cait: Right.
[00:16:12] Aaron: Because I know that it has to be a decision that you have to make. And that, for me, it's like as simple as what I'm doing, isn't working.
[00:16:20] Cait: Mm-hmm.
[00:16:20] Aaron: I'm not happy. And until I can really like, say, like, I cannot stop drinking, I am powerless over this. Or like, I have no choice in the say of this matter.
[00:16:30] Cait: Mm-hmm.
[00:16:30] Aaron: That's when... but it, and again. Like to go back to your point, like in the beginning of someone's sobriety, like you have to be a certain... a certain point of it is selfish.
[00:16:39] Aaron: I'm doing this for myself.
[00:16:40] Cait: Mm-hmm.
[00:16:41] Aaron: I have to figure this out. I'm going to be trying everything that I can. If that means I have to cut off relationships or, you know, X, Y, or Z, it's like, yes, you need to make those decisions. I don't know if that really answers your question, but it's like...
[00:16:51] Cait: ... no, it does. I mean, it's...
[00:16:52] Cait: ... I think the point that I was trying to get at is that, your story is an example of being selfish at times and being selfless in others. And it's really important to try to navigate the two. And there are points in your recovery and your journey where both are helpful.
[00:17:07] Aaron: Yeah.
[00:17:07] Cait: It's really important to focus on yourself and be, and look inward.
[00:17:11] Cait: And it's equally as important to set your ego aside and your self-centeredness and listen to other people.
[00:17:17] Aaron: Yeah.
[00:17:18] Cait: And help other people. What we talked about with Sara was, I don't think we recorded it, but just because this is a great pivot.
[00:17:26] Aaron: Yeah.
[00:17:26] Cait: To your relationship with Sara and your friendship with Sara, where she wasn't sober.
[00:17:34] Sara: Aaron’s laughing because I was wild.
[00:17:37] Cait: I wouldn't qualify her as like, managing it well.
[00:17:39] Aaron: No.
[00:17:40] Sara: I was a party girl.
[00:17:41] Cait: She was a party girl.
[00:17:42] Aaron: I helped Sara glue her heel back on at my house when she had been drinking a bottle of wine by herself. And fell down the stairs.
[00:17:48] Sara: Fell down the stairs, missed a step, fell down the stairs.
[00:17:52] Aaron: I think it was my birthday too.
[00:17:53] Sara: It was. Heel came off and I was like, hell no, I'm not stopping drinking. And, number two, do you have super glue? I'm still going out tonight. I'm still going to the bar.
[00:18:04] Cait: Wow.
[00:18:04] Sara: And Aaron was with me through all of those. And like he knew, you know.
[00:18:08] Aaron: Yeah.
[00:18:09] Sara: This might not be the most sustainable relationship with alcohol. But never once did he shame me. Or make me feel like what I was doing was wrong. Or tell me that I had a problem. He really just let me come to that realization on my own. And then was like a rock for me. Like in all of the times that I was questioning it or I would hit him up and be like, hey, can I go to a meeting with you?
[00:18:35] Sara: And then a week later I was drinking again. But it was never like... he never wrote me off. He was always just sort of there for me and was like, hey, when you need me, I'm here basically. And that was so important to me. That was really, really helpful in my sobriety journey because I never...
[00:18:53] Sara: ... I really felt like no one else was like that for me. Everyone else that I knew who was in the program was like, if you can't take this seriously, I can't be associated with you. And that was just awful because it was like when I needed them the most, they weren't there.
[00:19:06] Aaron: Yeah.
[00:19:06] Cait: I think there's two sides to that. Because I do think that what we were just talking about, you do have to be selfish in your recovery. And for those people, it might have been incredibly valid that that might have been too triggering for them and....
[00:19:18] Sara: ... totally.
[00:19:18] Cait: Not a healthy relationship. And I think that that's important to note that it's okay if you have to do that.
[00:19:23] Sara: Absolutely. And I think I have to do that currently in my life, you know. I have some people who have hit me up too many times where I feel like I actually can't help them.
[00:19:34] Aaron: Yeah.
[00:19:34] Sara: Because they haven't really made the decision themselves. And that's like important for you to kind of figure out on your own.
[00:19:42] Sara: But I am very, very thankful that I did have one person in my life who was like, you know, didn't say I can't do this with you. And it was, it was really helpful for me to have someone who was like...
[00:19:55] Aaron: ... yeah because at the same time, it's like, I'm not going out of my way to like, I'm not breaking my back to help Sara get sober.
[00:20:01] Cait: Right.
[00:20:01] Aaron: I've learned that like, you know, you always have a chair open and that if she needs a ride to a meeting or she needed help with something, like I'm there, but there's a line, right?
[00:20:08] Cait: How do we dictate that line?
[00:20:10] Aaron: I think it's something you learn over time, right? I know when I'm being taken advantage of.
[00:20:14] Cait: Mm-hmm.
[00:20:14] Aaron: At least I think I know. I keep it super simple, right. If someone wants to go to a meeting or if someone needs help and it's something that like, I feel like I can help them with in an appropriate manner. It's like, it's a no brainer, right?
[00:20:25] Cait: Yeah.
[00:20:25] Aaron: Helping someone move, I don't need to be paid. I have a truck. I'm not doing anything on Saturday. I can help you.
[00:20:30] Cait: Right.
[00:20:31] Aaron: But, hey, can I borrow your truck to go to San Diego to pick up my girlfriend? Because I don't want to fucking buy a train ticket, you know? It's like... no.
[00:20:38] Cait: Right.
[00:20:38] Aaron: That's a no. I don't know. It's a fine line. It definitely is a fine line. And like, going back to what Sara said, there would be a point where if like I saw Sara was ODing, had multiple DUIs, I'd be like, yo, you might have a problem, right. But like...
[00:20:49] Cait: ... yeah.
[00:20:49] Aaron: I knew where Sara was. I knew that it was already on her mind. Like I knew that she knew that she had a problem, right.
[00:20:53] Cait: Yeah.
[00:20:54] Aaron: And that for me is like, I've never seen anyone get sober, being fucking pulled in by a rope, right?
[00:21:01] Cait: Yeah.
[00:21:01] Aaron: Like it never works.
[00:21:02] Cait: No.
[00:21:03] Aaron: I knew that it was there for her and that like, I just needed to be there when she needed me. You know what I mean?
[00:21:08] Cait: Yeah.
[00:21:08] Aaron: So it's like, people don't get sober until it's their decision, until they choose that it's time. And sure, you can give a little pep talks and like try and help them. But at the end of the day, it's like, it's their decision.
[00:21:26] Cait: Yeah. I mean, it's important to hear for anybody who's out there, wavering in it.
[00:21:30] Cait: Like you have to choose. Nobody can. You can listen to all of these episodes to inspire you and you can watch all of these shows that reflect, you know, the possibilities of the outcome of getting sober. But there is something in you that has to click.
[00:21:48] Aaron: Totally.
[00:21:48] Cait: And that click will be enough fuel to get you to the meeting. Or to get you to pour out the alcohol. And it will happen. It will.
[00:21:57] Aaron: Yeah. Or just to reach out to someone and it's like, it's never... again, it's not always linear. I mean, Sara would be sober for a month and then she wouldn't be.
[00:21:58] Cait: Totally.
[00:21:58] Aaron: And you know, it's like, who knows? I hope you stay sober forever, but she could not stay sober forever.
[00:22:02] Aaron: And like, that's just part of the journey. It's the same for me. It's like, I could be drinking in a month. Who the fuck knows.
[00:22:07] Cait: Right.
[00:22:07] Aaron: But it's like, it's a journey, right? It's not a destination. We're not here to be... you're not sober, and then you're sober forever. It's like, you know.
[00:22:14] Cait: It's a journey.
[00:22:15] Aaron: I know, I can't... I mean, I can't tell you how many people I've seen that I'm like that dude's never going to get it.
[00:22:19] Aaron: Like there's my buddy Hasan who was in and out of jail forever. I mean, just like a fucking crazy like manic, thugged out dude that I was just like, this guy it's never going to work. And then it clicked. And it was like, he's in jail, like going to meetings. And it wasn't like something had drastically changed. It just finally clicked for him, you know?
[00:22:39] Cait: Yeah.
[00:22:39] Aaron: And it's like, he did the work. It's not just, it can click, but you also, like, there is no change without action, right?
[00:22:45] Cait: Totally.
[00:22:46] Aaron: So it's like until I'm doing things to like actively make my life better, whether that's praying, whether that's meditating, whether that's helping someone else, whether you know, there's a million things you can do to make, to like improve your quality of life.
[00:22:58] Cait: Yeah.
[00:22:58] Aaron: But until you... actions change things.
[00:23:01] Cait: Yeah.
[00:23:01] Aaron: I can think I want to be sober for as long as I want.
[00:23:04] Cait: Yeah.
[00:23:04] Aaron: But until I start taking action to do that, it's like...
[00:23:06] Cait: ... totally.
[00:23:07] Aaron: Yeah.
[00:23:07] Cait: I agree. And I mean, that's Sara and I's journey for sure. I mean, as we are coming, you know, I've been like sober for a year and eight months or something. Like, it gets longer and longer every day.
[00:23:20] Aaron: Yeah.
[00:23:20] Cait: And the things that I need in order to feel secure in my sobriety change and evolve.
[00:23:24] Aaron: Totally.
[00:23:24] Cait: Just like you do in your personal life.
[00:23:26] Aaron: Of course.
[00:23:27] Cait: And your sense of humor and your freaking style, it's the same thing. It changes and evolves.
[00:23:32] Cait: How has your toolkit, your guide…
[00:23:35] Aaron: Mm-hmm.
[00:23:36] Cait: Your things that make you feel secure in your sobriety evolved, if you can look at when you first got sober then today? What do you do differently?
[00:23:44] Aaron: Well, when I first got sober, I was like very heavily involved in recovery.
[00:23:47] Cait: Yeah.
[00:23:47] Aaron: Going to meetings. Going to the 12 steps. Not hanging out with people that drank. Not going out. Living with people that were sober.
[00:23:55] Aaron: Like my whole life was like AA. Like I was in love... not in love, but it was, it was like what I needed. It was like, I needed a... like an immersion.
[00:24:05] Cait: Yes.
[00:24:05] Aaron: Like I couldn't like, I was so young and there was no one. My high school was like, no one was like that. So it was like, I had to have my tribe and my connection.
[00:24:15] Cait: Yeah.
[00:24:15] Aaron: Through the years? I mean, now it's like, I go to a meeting a week. You know, I have my tribe. It's like, you find your group of people. And like, I work with them on what's happening in my life. My service, whereas like, I might used to take a lot of people through the steps. Now it's like showing up for people to help them move, answering the phone when I don't want to.
[00:24:33] Aaron: Calling my mom to see how she's doing. Helping my sister get a car, not to pay for it, but go, you know, teach her how to do what I know how to do. So it's doing things that I don't necessarily want to do. Like there's this huge part of my sobriety that is service. Staying in tune with that in a way that evolves.
[00:24:48] Aaron: But as far as what I need, like the thought of a drink or doing drugs is like so far removed from my reality that...
[00:24:53] Cait: ... totally.
[00:24:54] Aaron: You know?
[00:24:55] Cait: Yeah.
[00:24:55] Sara: Aaron loves sweet treats.
[00:24:57] Aaron: I do.
[00:24:57] Cait: Totally. So do we.
[00:25:00] Sara: That's like kind of... I kind of learned that trick from Aaron.
[00:25:03] Aaron: Yeah.
[00:25:03] Cait: Just have candy, chocolate, what?
[00:25:05] Sara: Just like treat yourself. Go get ice cream, get a cupcake.
[00:25:08] Aaron: Me and Jackie, at least once a week. Or I mean, we're trying to lose weight now.
[00:25:12] Aaron: But for the first like year we'd have donuts every week. Like on a Friday, Saturday night, we'd have DK's delivered or like ice-cream.
[00:25:18] Sara: Sometimes you just need that little sweet treat.
[00:25:20] Aaron: That's like, whatever you need in your life.
[00:25:23] Sara: You know, I did an interview with Beth Bowen, who's the host of Sober Stories. And she gave such a good quote where she said, my motto is a cookie is better than a glass of wine.
[00:25:33] Aaron: For sure.
[00:25:33] Cait: And just to think about it that way.
[00:25:35] Aaron: Yeah.
[00:25:35] Cait: Like if you go and grab a treat, when you're feeling like, Ooh, I need a treat. And rewiring it and refocusing it. And, I mean, it does, like 13 years, yeah, it becomes less forefront.
[00:25:48] Aaron: Yeah.
[00:25:49] Cait: And more like the benefits of being a sober person being present.
[00:25:53] Aaron: Yeah.
[00:25:53] Cait: And being able to show that presentness to people through many different areas of your life, wherever you can.
[00:26:01] Aaron: For sure.
[00:26:02] Aaron: I mean, I don't go to bars. I still don't do that kind of stuff. When I was single, I would go out and try and have fun that way, but it was never, I was like never connected to that right after I decided to stop.
[00:26:10] Aaron: There's a saying, you know, you hang out in a barber shop long enough, you're going to get your haircut.
[00:26:14] Aaron: So like, I know how to keep myself maintained in a way that I don't have to think about it every day.
[00:26:20] Cait: Right.
[00:26:20] Aaron: When I first got sober, it was every day, like, okay, that's what they call it one day at a time. It was like, every day was, okay I need to get to tomorrow. It's 8:00 PM. I'm going to go to bed in two hours. I'll have a bubbly.
[00:26:30] Cait: Yeah.
[00:26:31] Aaron: Whatever you got to do.
[00:26:32] Cait: Right.
[00:26:32] Aaron: You know, but then as you were saying, it's like, it changes over time. So for me, my maintenance is much, much, much easier now.
[00:26:37] Cait: Yeah. Well, I'm honored to have known you for the time that I have and am looking forward to continuing to evolve, change and be sober friends.
[00:26:48] Aaron: Yeah.
[00:26:48] Cait: As…or one day at a time. I guess, today we're all sober friends.
[00:26:53] Aaron: Yeah.
[00:26:53] Cait: Right now we're all sober friends. And, I appreciate everything you do and have done.
[00:26:58] Sara: And we know who to hit up when we are moving.
[00:27:01] Aaron: Yeah.
[00:27:02] Cait: Or need a truck.
[00:27:03] Sara: And don't even think about not answering our call.
[00:27:05] Aaron: I'll be out of the country.
[00:27:06] Cait: You better pick up that phone.
[00:27:07] Sara: Because we'll guilt you.
[00:27:10] Cait: Thank you for talking with me.
[00:27:11] Aaron: Yeah, thanks for having me on. It's been great.
[00:27:14] Cait: Do you want to enhance your sober care routine? Head to Clearheaded.co for tips, tricks tools, and more on this episode. And if you're someone who likes to watch podcasts, we are on YouTube. Clearheaded podcast is sponsored by Free Spirits. Head to drinkfreespirits.com and use code clearheaded20 for 20% off your first order.
[00:27:37] Cait: This episode was recorded at the Wave Podcasting studios and produced by Alexis Archuleta. All the music used was created by honeydu. Oh, yeah, we have a Spotify playlist too. Ah, there's a lot to check out. Anyways. See you next week.